Saturday, November 8, 2008


In the aftermath of the passage of Proposition 8 the wagons have been circled and we are shooting each other!  What in the world is going on?  

To name just a couple of the areas where the "rough and tumble boogie" is being played out.  

There is a huge disappointment from the LGBT community.  In California we went from the mountain top with the Supreme Court ruling to the the depths of the valley with the passage of Proposition 8.  Now, we are beating the crap out of anyone and everyone for all sorts of reasons when in fact we should be gathering our resources and responding in ways that will support the LGBT community.  The folks at the "other sites" are having a field day with this and do not think for one minute that this nonsense going on is not going to come back and hurt the need for full rights for all people.  Peaceful protests, peaceful marching in the streets, letter writing campaigns, court action (which seems to be the most sensible/productive) are all things we should be focusing on.  Beating each other up does not strike me as really productive.  Bating up those that hurt you does not seem like a way in which to change their minds -- in fact it is counter productive.  In fact it gives the enemies of constitutional rights more ammunition to go after other persons rights.

I cannot walk in your shoes, I cannot feel your pain, and I cannot feel your despair.  I am not you.  But I do support your drive for full rights like yesterday.  Keep in mind that courts have said the LGBT person has these God-given rights.  This proposition 8 has denied them to you but they have not taken them away from you, no one and nothing can do that.  We just need the courts to once again reiterate that fact.  It will happen.  

1 comment:

Lynn said...

Well, I think I have everything copied and cleaned up. I'm closing this for comments.


Lindy said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Saturday, November 8, 2008 10:42:00 PM EST

Lynn said...

lindy, Blogger software doesn't allow editing comments, only deleting them. Your comment included a word we don't permit here, so I had to delete it and copy it (below) in a revised version. Best I can do.

Lindy said...

"Bating [sic] up those that hurt you does not seem like a way in which to change their minds..."

Really? Because talking to them sensibly hasn't helped much either.

If the [deleted by site moderator] at the Stonewall had had your attitude we wouldn't have a gay rights movement to argue about. remember that the next time you are tempted to say "peace, peace," because there is no peace until there is justice.

Saturday, November 8, 2008 10:42:00 PM EST
Sunday, November 9, 2008 4:02:00 AM EST
Fred Schwartz said...

You misunderstand. I did not say do nothing, I said do nothing that is non-productive. If you find hurting people to be productive then you probably need to do it. I on the other hand, find harming people to be counter-productive when you want something from them. That is just me the political scientist. Sort of anti-christian as well.
Sunday, November 9, 2008 4:29:00 PM EST
Scott Hankins said...

Umm. I'm not sure, Fred. Although my mind agrees with you, I also know in my gut that it was purses swinging at police heads that got the movement going. Just sayin'. Next time I hear an unconscious [DELETED] telling me about my inhumanity, I'm swingin'.
Sunday, November 9, 2008 11:22:00 PM EST
Fred Schwartz said...

Scott, Lindy,
I ain't looking for justice, I want mercy. I will go to my room now.
Monday, November 10, 2008 2:05:00 AM EST
Lindy said...

Well, I don't see how madly protesting is hurting anyone. And, it has been an effective tactic in the past. It's not like I am advocating physical violence. But, it may well be time to dig in.

Regarding your last, it's do justice, love mercy, walk humbly... It's a package deal. And it's not about what you are looking for or what you want. It's about what you do.

So, you won't take ["DEL**"] but you'll allow "[DELETED?]" Well, go figure.

Going to my room too...
Monday, November 10, 2008 3:42:00 AM EST
Anonymous said...

I see nothing wrong with protesting. Half the problem with this campaign was that we were invisible.

THIS MATTERS. We should say so. For a while, and then time to get back to work.

We don't have to be angry, or threatening. In fact the protests so far have been surprisingly positive. I am aware of only a couple of incidents, which is pretty remarkable given the tens of thousands of people involved.

I am NOT going back in the closet and neither should anyone else. Let's show them OUR support, and then do something with it.

Monday, November 10, 2008 1:43:00 PM EST
Scott Hankins said...


you're right. I was thinking about the actual meaning of the word. I'll delete my own so Lynn doesn't have to.
Monday, November 10, 2008

8:19:00 PM EST
Scott Hankins said...

oops, this comment form isn't set up so that I can do that - sorry.
Monday, November 10, 2008 8:20:00 PM EST

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